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Star Series

Conversations with Hubert Saint-Onge
Conflicting Views on Training and CoPs

Part III: Communities in Theory; Some Broader Questions

Part III. Communities of Practice in Theory;
Some Broader Questions

  Further Conflicting Views on CoPs

Jerry Ash put forward further conflicting views on CoPs:

Hubert, during the March STAR Series with Tom Stewart, who as you know is a member of the editorial board of Fortune magazine (later became editor of the Harvard Business Review) and the media's foremost advocate of KM, Jack Vinson noticed a distinct conflict between what Tom had to say and what you had said just a week earlier at the AOK/Delphi Group Enterprise Learning and Knowledge Exchange Summit in Palm Springs, California.

In your keynote address, you discussed the idea that some communities could be forced, not voluntary. You used a two-axis description of communities: One axis ranged from Structured to Unstructured, and the other from Project to Functional. Your argument was that structured communities tend to be appointed, accountable for a specific goal and probably part of the formal organization/hierarchy.

The following week, Tom Stewart said company-created work groups are not communities of practice:

"Project teams are great things. They are where the work gets done in flat, knowledge-based organizations. They have deadlines and budgets. Communities of practice do not do work, except incidentally. Communities of practice are where human capital gets created and shared. They have no deadlines, no agendas, no fixed budget. They have a shared passion.

"Yes, they can overlap. Sometimes a community of practice can emerge out of what began as a project team. And sometimes a project team can grow out of a community of practice, when a bunch of people who were already part of a community decide to undertake a specific job. But they are not, not, not -- emphatically not, in case you missed the point -- synonyms. And Hubert, whom I love and admire, is, for the first time in his life, wrong, wrong, wrong. Project teams and communities of practice do not belong on a continuum or as points on a grid. They are on different planes of existence."

Jerry Ash: What the two of you seem to be disagreeing on is the way CoPs form and function -- Hubert wanting them to be company inspired and controlled; Tom expecting them to form naturally around the water cooler.

For me, all this was a prelude to a story in the Washington Post about office cliques. They form naturally, but are they CoPs? The article didn't even mention CoPs, but painted an interesting picture of the usefulness (not) of office cliques which are self-forming groups.

Here's an excerpt of that story:

"So you thought high school was over? You can sense echoes of high school when that gaggle of women goes to lunch every day and leaves you behind. You know your group -- being on the tech side -- cannot mingle with the sales group. They're too cool; you're a little too nerdy. And those coworkers who have the boss's ear -- well, you know never to ask to join them for lunch."

You can read more on what Hubert and Tom had to say as well as more about the clique story by visiting the Knowledge Network EZine archives:

Based on what I had heard from Hubert and Tom, the "clique" story caused me to come down on the side of Hubert Saint-Onge. CoPs are too important, I concluded, to leave them up to the serendipity of self-forming and self-determining groups. I dared say Tom is "wrong, wrong, wrong," even though I am still a bit uncomfortable with my conclusion. For me to say that effective communities can't succeed as democracies . . . well, for me, that's an unnatural act!

Well, Hubert, this is where we've been and where some of us are. Now I ask you to take us forward. Regardless of our differences, we all agree on one thing -- communities of practice are the key to the evolution of knowledge-driven enterprises. But we need a clearer vision.

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  Coexistence of Hierarchical/Community Structures

Hubert Saint-Onge: Let me see if I can paint the clearer vision you ask for in regards to the place of communities of practice in organization.

I believe that communities of practice will complement the formal hierarchical structure that is already so prevalent in contemporary organizations. We will need both hierarchical and community structures to coexist. The formal hierarchy is essential to the management of accountabilities. Communities of practice are essential to the collaboration and learning we need to weave around the formal hierarchy.

The complementarity is undeniable. Within this vision, I see different types of communities of practice emerging: some will be less structured, spontaneously set up and others will be more structured, specifically sponsored and given accountabilities to warrant the investment in their development. I should point out that I would never see a community of practice become an integral part of the formal hierarchy; but, some communities of practice at the more structured end of the spectrum will be asked to produce agreed upon outcomes. The key difference between the hierarchy and communities of practice is that the latter has to be self-governed. There should not be any compromise on this principle. The attached slides outline my thinking in more details on the above.

John Barrett said the slides and the indication that self-governance is a principle across the spectrum of types leads him to ask about the three elements that he believes define a CoP: knowledge domain, community, and practice:

Does the following (mostly attributable to Wenger's "Cultivating Communities of Practice") hold true across the spectrum? A CoP is a unique combination of three fundamental elements: a domain or topic of knowledge of knowledge, which creates common ground and a sense of common identity; a community of people who care about the domain, thus creating the social fabric for learning, sharing, inquiry, and trust; and the shared practice (specific set of frameworks, tools, references, language, stories, documents, etc.) that they are developing to be effective in their domain.

Sam Marshall, KM Specialist, Unilever Research, was interested how the slides distinguish between informal, supported and structured CoPs:

This fits well with our own experiences in Unilever where the whole range of network types have arisen\been created. I wondered if you had further views on the following:

  1. Do you see an inherent difference in the quality of outputs from one type (of community) versus another. e.g. if you needed an expert community to help solve a problem, is one type more likely to produce more innovative answers?
  2. Do you have a feel for the relative costs vs benefits of one type over another, assuming than an organization could decide to make a strategic choice to foster one particular type (and I don't just mean direct costs, otherwise organic CoPs would look deceptively like a bargain every time!)
  3. There's an emerging literature on the negative sides of CoPs (e.g. their ability to subvert change initiatives); have you firsthand experience of this? Is it an advantage of structured CoPs that they're easier to kill if they 'go bad' would you say?

  Deb Wallace Goes Back to Basics

Deb Wallace: Being at the beginning of an emerging field of study is a fascinating time. People are jockeying for position in describing the terminology, outlining the basic concepts, showing the relationships between ideas, bringing some form and function to the fundamental principles -- some credibility, trying to understand the value, the needs gaps, the benefits. It stands to reason that there will be conflicting views as the language sorts itself out!

One thing I've found useful in working with groups that are exploring the possibilities of knowledge management strategies is to begin with vocabulary -- if we can decide on what the terminology means (or at least put a stake in the sand and agree that this is a starting point), then we can move ahead with greater speed because we don't have to stop and describe what we're talking about all the time.

Lots of terms have been tossed into the conversation so far -- but maybe it makes sense to go back to the basics of what we mean by a community of practice. There are lots of different types of communities" at work in an organization -- communities of interest, of learning, of purpose. You see lots of different types of communities described in case studies and conversations about knowledge initiatives. Each has a set of characteristics that distinguishes it from other types. Communities of Practice are a very special kind of community where the focus is on practice -- the ways and means of accomplishing a work function. At this type of community's core is a collaborative effort to improve practice -- the way people do their work. Wenger et al. in "Cultivating Communities of Practice" (2002) define communities of practice as:

"Groups of people who share a concern, a set of problems, or a passion about a topic, and who deepen their understanding and knowledge of this area by interacting on an ongoing basis."

At Clarica, I think we've taken the definition a step further and directly linked it to practice -- how we do our jobs. The focus of a community of practice, then is to collaborate on improving not only individual practice (e.g., how do I do my job better?) but to also raise the bar and set standards for how the practice is best performed -- to generalize the improved practice to a broader group (e.g. how do we as a group of ". . . . " better our performance and contribute to reaching our firm's strategic imperatives?).

You might compare this two-level approach to the notion of individual and organizational capabilities. In a community of practice, I as an individual can improve my own capabilities, but in doing so, I also contribute to advancing the capabilities of the practice to which I belong -- collectively we improve on the fundamentals of how we achieve our goals.

Is a clique a community of practice? I don't think so . . . but it does perhaps take on the characteristics of one of the types of communities -- people getting together to discuss something.

If a community of practice accepts some support from the firm -- even as little as the use of the corporate email system to communicate -- does that mean that it is no longer a "pure" community of practice? If you look at the type of communities that Tom Stewart is talking about as "naturally forming around the water cooler", perhaps you have to beg the question -- who provided the water cooler? You can see some level of support of communities from the firm in most types of communities!

Larry Prusak participated in an executive development institute that we did some years back at the Faculty of Information Studies at the U of T. He suggested that the best thing an organization could do to promote a knowledge strategy was to give people some time, attention, and resources -- the beer and pizza solution. In supporting communities of practice with a method of communicating, a place to store their knowledge, tools for collaborating, or whatever, we're doing just that -- giving them the time, attention, and resources they need to further their individual and collective practices.

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  CoPs: Definitions Changing, will Synthesize

Deb Wallace continues: One of the steps in the process of supporting communities of practice that we've defined is to start with establishing a definition for the term. Although Wenger's work is seminal, proposing the first definition for communities of practice -- it's interesting to see the many variations people have proposed. The Knowledge Garden has gathered a few examples you might want to take a look at.

John Barrett's comments about the three key components of communities of practice also has some variations. Wenger et al., as John pointed out, have identified domain, community, and practice. Lesser et al. in "Knowledge and Communities" (Butterworth-Heinemann, 2000) have identified people, places, and things. Hubert and I have identified practice, people, and capabilities. We put the following chart together in our book to show some of these variations in description of community of practice elements:

Table 2.2 Elements of Communities of Practice
Author and perspective   Elements 
Wenger, McDermott, Snyder
Consultants and researchers
  • Domain: the community's knowledge base and understanding of the field it which it resides.
  • Community: the collection of people and their corresponding roles that ofrm the community
  • Practice: the "work" of the "community," its actions, learning activities, knowledge repositories, etc.
Lesser, Fontaine and Slusher
Consultants, IBM Institute for Knowledge Management
  • People: those who interact on a regular basis around a common set of issues, interests, or needs
  • Places: gathering points, face-to-face or virtual, that provide a meeting ground for the community members
  • Things: knowledge objects generated by individuals or collectively by the community
Saint-Onge and Wallace
KM Practitioners
  • Practice: the knowledge base, processes and procedures that inform a collection of actions in the delivery or a product or service
  • People: the community of practitioners who join together to find ways to realize corporate objectives
  • Capabilities: the knowledge base, skills, abilities, attitudes, brands, processes, and relationships that result in the ability to undertake actionws within the practice. The "link" between strategy and performance

Because communities of practice like any organizational structure (e.g.,departments, groups, teams, etc.) take on many different forms, it stands to reason that they will be described in different ways.

As the field of study continues to develop, we'll most likely see a synthesis as well as a spectrum described.

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  But . . . Do they Do Work?

Jerry Ash returns to a fundamental question: You (and now, we) keep talking about giving CoPs chores to accomplish on behalf of the company; but, Tom Stewart emphatically told us in March that CoPs "Don't Do Work!" He said teams and CoPs are totally different things. Please respond to this conflicting view. It is not only troubling, but fundamental to our understanding of what we can expect from communities of practice. I hear you saying CoPs indeed do work, but how do you respond to people like Tom Stewart who see it otherwise.

Deb Wallace replies: Where Work "Can" Happen.

Perhaps again we're tied up in the language, "chores to accomplish on behalf of the company" and "communities of practice don't do work" -- well what do we mean by chores and work? If you again go back to the core of a community of practice -- they come together because they do want to improve how they do their work. They want to know how to do their chores better! They want to improve their individual capabilities and advance their practice -- otherwise, they wouldn't participate. So I'd have to disagree that they don't "do work" -- they in fact accomplish a great deal of work! But that work is self-initiated and how they accomplish it is self-governed out of a need created from "within". If the firm and the people involved in a particular practice are aligned -- all focused on achieving the firm's strategic imperatives -- the "work" accomplished from "within" might indeed coincide with a need perceived from "without."

So, instead of a firm spending a pile of time and money to put a new sales training program in place, why not create a community of practice for the sales staff so that they can learn from each other? Has the firm given the community a mandate to create a training program -- given them a chore to do? Or, has the firm provided an opportunity, an environment in which sales people can learn from each other? Seems to me this is a bit of a "half full" and "half empty" conversation

Bob Parden, Professor, Santa Clara University, asserts two points.

When members of a project "team" (hierarchical) develop a collaborative coalition attitude, they become a community of practice. Even self-governed need one person to act as a "leader".

Every organization needs hierarchy. Otherwise you have uncoordinated, random activities. The key is in the style of the leaders -- facilitators or autocrats.

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  "Dispersed" Leadership; Facilitation

Hubert Saint-Onge: I see the resurgence of an old debate that keeps coming back on whether any group needs a leader to get anywhere. My experience is that the exercise of leadership is essential for anything to get done. But this leadership can take different forms. The exercise of leadership can be placed on a spectrum that goes from highly focused on one individual who takes the reins, to highly dispersed among a group of individuals who agree to come together to pursue a defined goal/purpose.

The constant is that leadership needs to be exercised. In my experience, the "self-governed" requirement of a community of practice tends to put the exercise of effective leadership in a community of practice at the "dispersed" end of the spectrum. In the case of the community of practice for the agent network at Clarica, a steering committee of agents provided stewardship and leadership for the community.

Deb Wallace was the facilitator but brought a great deal of effectively exercised leadership to ensure that the community maintained integrity with its agreed upon conventions. She exercised highly skilled leadership in a facilitative manner. Specific agents tackled issues and took it upon themselves to invite new members and spur the conversation into productive enquiries. I am convinced that this community would have failed if it had depended on one individual for leadership.

Carl Frappaolo, Executive Vice President, The Delphi Group, on leadership:

I enjoyed your discussion regarding the role of leadership in a CoP. I agree leadership is always required, else the community may drift off or become fragmented. I also agree that leadership can take many faces or approaches. I have found through my practice that when a CoP is involved, the leader should be more of a facilitator than a leader.

The facilitator's role is to ensure that the focus of the group stays on track, to provide any infrastructure support to facilitate exchange, to encourage sharing and bring attention to those that are active participants. The effective leader encourages its community members, sings the praises of those that contribute but takes no credit for the success of the CoP in the end, because the leader views the group's success as just that -- the success of the group.

I was recently providing this description at a think tank on KM when someone in the group blurted out -- "Hey you are describing my mother." Perhaps that is a good way to characterize the effective CoP leader.

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  Distinguishing Between Facilitator & Instructor

Bob Parden on the facilitator role: A skilled facilitator is to improve interaction. If the facilitator answers questions we are back to training, not learning. Facilitators with expertise may forget the process as they switch to content.

Hubert Saint-Onge replies it is very important to make a clear distinction between a facilitator who asks questions conducive to learning and an instructor who takes over the learning process. You might want to look into the "action learning" literature to find out more about this concept.

Bob Parden again: Expertise is from someone in the group. This is how tacit knowledge is exchanged.

Hubert Saint-Onge agrees: I believe that this is in fact the only valid way to surface tacit knowledge: through a relevant "productive enquiry" that is raised within a community of practice and then stands the scrutiny of other members for validation. Not all tacit knowledge out there is either relevant or on the mark.

On the final point Hubert Saint-Onge fully agreed: It is sometimes best to appoint a facilitator from outside the community for this very reason. At other times, you can use a high credibility leader in the domain who has good facilitating instincts. This sometimes gives added credibility when it is required. When this does happen, it is important that the facilitator with domain expertise make a clear distinction between their role in orchestrating the discussion and their content validation role. Otherwise, the combination of these two roles can shut down the discussions and be counterproductive.

David Hawthorne, President, HCI, presented his own synthesized view and put forward some global reactions:

There are matters of both principle and practice here that seem to be in conflict. We start from the principle that the CoP can be/should be an important mechanism in a learning organization, and then we immediately get into a discussion about how to manage these communities . . . through "leadership" or "facilitation."

Fundamentally, the KM ethos should argue that "leadership" and "facilitation" are aspects of KM participation which each CoP member should be capable of exercising appropriately. In practice, however, that's probably not going to work. Work groups (teams) organized to accomplish a specific business goal need to draw on a wide variety of skills, technical and otherwise. The skills, personalities, and perspectives have to be orchestrated to produce desired outcomes within limited timeframes.

Hubert seems to suggest that the right people with the right skills and dispositions will somehow percolate to the surface to populate these teams (work groups and communities of practice) despite the fact that prior experience in such collaborative groups is relatively rare. Almost no one educated in the West has experienced collaborative learning and almost no one working in any industrial or even post-industrial (i.e. scientifically managed) business has much experience with it either.

Hubert's assertion that "training" and "learning" spring from almost "entirely different paradigms" goes too far, I think. True, if the only training you've been exposed to has been within conventional education or business, you probably feel that it's been a one-way street on which the "trainer" or "teacher" passes on some bit of knowledge to a blank recipient who is deemed to have "learned" once they can mimic what they've been taught. But that's not really good "training" or "teaching." Good training and good teaching does prepare the participant to act on his own; to initiate, to probe, recognize, respond, and ultimately, innovate. And good KM teaching and training should go beyond that, and teach collaborative behaviours.

Our Western culture (especially in the U.S.) makes it all seem to be about the bold, brilliant individuals. In fact, most of our achievements are achieved collectively through collaboration and in community with others. The reason this discussion seems to have such import at this moment is that technology (information, computing and communications technologies in specific) hold out a promise for human collaboration at unprecedented levels in wholly new types of social organizations.

There is not going to be some kind of historic paradigm shift here where we all get up tomorrow to discover our colleagues have become great collaborators and sharers of knowledge. It's going to be a long transformation of ourselves and our organizations. We should start wherever we can start. We can probably get "teaming" to work in limited ways now. In the meantime, we can set about changing the tacit cultural lessons in our training programs while we continue to explicitly teach the basic skills and competencies we have to teach to in order to get on with today's business, today. The important thing is to realize how little of our collaborative potential we have actually tapped and to begin learning now, how go about tapping it.

  Hubert Saint-Onge in closing:

I have very much enjoyed the conversation on knowledge strategy in this space. I hope it has been helpful to those who have monitored the space and asked questions. Let me reiterate some of the key points that relate to the discussion.

  • A knowledge strategy should always have the two components of knowledge access and knowledge exchange.
  • The purpose of a knowledge strategy is to build capability: this might not be easy to measure as an outcome but it is essential to the ongoing success of the firm as it strives to move faster and faster to seize opportunities in the market place.
  • Knowledge and learning are entirely convergent in the virtual space.
  • The key principle required for the success of a knowledge strategy is self-initiation. Training is based on the entitlement paradigm and hence is not congruent with the systematic development of a knowledge-driven organization.
  • Communities of practice are most effectively built in the context of a comprehensive knowledge strategy.
  • Communities of practice provide a high trust, socio-technical model for learning and capability building through knowledge sharing.
  • The leadership of an organization must value collaboration and learning to support the development of a systematic knowledge strategy. Communities will tend to threaten "command and control" managers who cannot tolerate any movement towards self-organizing work and interaction.

Regards, Hubert

Part I: Communities of Practice in Practice at Clarica

Part II: Communities of Practice, Forums for Learning

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